[QUOTE=Socialism Sucks]You see. No effort to refute the points made in the essay or by me. Nothing, but ad hominem. This person is exactly what I am talking about. They are contentious, but lazy and stupid.

Oh man alive, what could it be about your writings that invite all these “ad hominem” attacks?? Look closely, just at your own words, and reflect. Just for a minute. It shouldn’t be hard.

[QUOTE="Socialism Sucks” Sucks]Oh man alive, what could it be about your writings that invite all these “ad hominem” attacks?? Look closely, just at your own words, and reflect. Just for a minute. It shouldn’t be hard.

Oh, I get it. I keep putting down people who might somehow disagree with me. Doh! I’ll quit that right now. Sorry.

[QUOTE="Socialism Sucks” Sucks]Oh man alive, what could it be about your writings that invite all these “ad hominem” attacks?? Look closely, just at your own words, and reflect. Just for a minute. It shouldn’t be hard.

Why don’t you elucidate the audience? You make his point about laziness of thought with this response.

[QUOTE=Merphy]Why don’t you elucidate the audience? You make his point about laziness of thought with this response.

It’s really frustrating to come to this website to enter into an intelligent and invigorating discussion when all you read are what some would call “ad hominems” and others call “epithets” - just plain name-calling, and posters not even addressing the subject. Sometimes, although I know intelligent and interesting people in this state, this webpage makes me wonder if there are many on this page. It is difficult to engage in an intelligent debate if it is relegated to insulting your mother, your intelligence, etc. and never addressing the issues. If that is what interst me, I can do that in our local juke joints with some goat roper and then go out and get it on in the parking lot. Where is the intellect?
Just my own observation.

[QUOTE=Want some discussion]It’s really frustrating to come to this website to enter into an intelligent and invigorating discussion when all you read are what some would call “ad hominems” and others call “epithets” - just plain name-calling, and posters not even addressing the subject. Sometimes, although I know intelligent and interesting people in this state, this webpage makes me wonder if there are many on this page. It is difficult to engage in an intelligent debate if it is relegated to insulting your mother, your intelligence, etc. and never addressing the issues. If that is what interst me, I can do that in our local juke joints with some goat roper and then go out and get it on in the parking lot. Where is the intellect?
Just my own observation.

Take a look around you. See the division in politcs everywhere in this nation. Whether you like it or not, there is a fight for the constitution, which by the way, is not being followed today. You are right that I am angry at those who oppose my opinion, because my opinion is based off of the constitution. Ever since the NEW DEAL, the constitution has been voided. I am angry about that. And I am afraid that it is so far gone, that there is little option left but to invoke the constitution and tear today’s government down, and build it back up the way our forefathers built it. Socialism is nothing but slavery. It is the FATAL CONCEIT!

As far as IQ, many intelligent people make intelligent arguments that are inherantly flawed (i.e. Karl Marx, Noam Chomsky). The fact is that Capitalism, as defined by MARX, is better and more able in producing prosperity than Socialism or Communism. Karl Marx himself said that Socialism should not only equal capitalism, but should surpass it in prosperity. That has never happen, and it never will, for the theory fails to take into account human nature. The human will is good, but susceptible to evil. Our courts, provided for in the constitution are set up to amend the evils. But in a socialistic society, power is controlled by a few, and if they are crooked and evil, there are no checks and balances. In Cuba, no one can go up to Castro and make him change his laws. Castro is the only one that can give the order. That is scary! Why would people put their faith in a few people?

For some reason the Democratic party, and yes the republican party to a lesser extent, are both guilty of increasing the size of government and increasing the dependence of its citizens on government instead of citizens depending on themselves. Our schools, our local governments, and our livelihood is controlled 1000 miles away by Washington DC. We would do better if we did it as we, the communities saw fit.

[QUOTE=Socialism Sucks]Take a look around you. See the division in politcs everywhere in this nation. Whether you like it or not, there is a fight for the constitution, which by the way, is not being followed today. You are right that I am angry at those who oppose my opinion, because my opinion is based off of the constitution. Ever since the NEW DEAL, the constitution has been voided. I am angry about that. And I am afraid that it is so far gone, that there is little option left but to invoke the constitution and tear today’s government down, and build it back up the way our forefathers built it. Socialism is nothing but slavery. It is the FATAL CONCEIT!

As far as IQ, many intelligent people make intelligent arguments that are inherantly flawed (i.e. Karl Marx, Noam Chomsky). The fact is that Capitalism, as defined by MARX, is better and more able in producing prosperity than Socialism or Communism. Karl Marx himself said that Socialism should not only equal capitalism, but should surpass it in prosperity. That has never happen, and it never will, for the theory fails to take into account human nature. The human will is good, but susceptible to evil. Our courts, provided for in the constitution are set up to amend the evils. But in a socialistic society, power is controlled by a few, and if they are crooked and evil, there are no checks and balances. In Cuba, no one can go up to Castro and make him change his laws. Castro is the only one that can give the order. That is scary! Why would people put their faith in a few people?

For some reason the Democratic party, and yes the republican party to a lesser extent, are both guilty of increasing the size of government and increasing the dependence of its citizens on government instead of citizens depending on themselves. Our schools, our local governments, and our livelihood is controlled 1000 miles away by Washington DC. We would do better if we did it as we, the communities saw fit.

your mama sucked a lot

[QUOTE=Sounds like]your mama sucked a lot

Pitiful…

http://www.friesian.com/marx.htm

Karl Marx (1818-1883) did not have a theory of morality; he had a theory of history. Thus, Marxism was not about right or wrong but about what will happen in history. Marx was contemptuous of people who judged things in moral terms. When diehards say that Marxism has actually never been “tried” (despite what Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Castro, Ho, and Daniel Ortega thought they were doing), they don’t understand that Marxism was not a rule for behavior or a program for action; it was supposed to be the theory of a deterministic mechanism that will produce the future, a theory of actions that will arise spontaneously because of historical circumstances. This was not a theory about “human nature” or “human psychology” [1], but about how the mode of economic production (how goods and services are produced) determines all the other political, social, cultural, and moral structures of a society. The needs of the “English petty bourgeois” are thus not “false needs” [2], however dismissive Marx sounds, but true needs in relation to a capitalistic mode of production—needs which will change over time, in a historicist sense, as the mode of production changes. As a “science” of history, Marxism would succeed or fail to the extent that it could actually predict the evolution of production and its various effects.

Marx thought that as capitalism had .....

Go to the link to finish the article.

[QUOTE=Unregistereddfdig]There’s nothing like a true believer, drunk from the exhilaration of having finally read a book ... or in this case, a WHOLE article, looking down on lowly, plain, uninformed sheep-people. Get a life.

I have read several books, including Marx and Engels Communist Manifesto. Care to discuss it?

Let’s see you back up that bravado with some action. Come on! I dare you to do such.

Since some of you still have not addressed the article at all on points you disagree with, I will post it back up. We punish businesses for taking risks and doing businesses by making it harder for them to make a profit. Is it any wonder that they leave? This article tells you why they leave. They are under no obligation to stay. I again challenge you to think about your town, your state, and your country and ask yourself if we are supportive of business or do we seek to live off of the sweat of others to benefit others. The redistrubution of wealth from socialism is different from slavery, HOW? Again, I come back to the principle of government and how our constitution provides these principles for americans, yet for some reason, we through government seek to change it. Democrats talk a big game about freedom and liberty, yet they do the opposite when it comes to action. Again, please read the article.

Still no attempts at refutation. Then it is believed by all that it is true! RIGHT?

[QUOTE=Socialism Sucks]Since some of you still have not addressed the article at all on points you disagree with, I will post it back up. We punish businesses for taking risks and doing businesses by making it harder for them to make a profit. Is it any wonder that they leave? This article tells you why they leave. They are under no obligation to stay. I again challenge you to think about your town, your state, and your country and ask yourself if we are supportive of business or do we seek to live off of the sweat of others to benefit others. The redistrubution of wealth from socialism is different from slavery, HOW? Again, I come back to the principle of government and how our constitution provides these principles for americans, yet for some reason, we through government seek to change it. Democrats talk a big game about freedom and liberty, yet they do the opposite when it comes to action. Again, please read the article.

RIGHT ON THANKS FOR THE GREAT ARTICLE.

[QUOTE=Socialism Sucks]Still no attempts at refutation. Then it is believed by all that it is true! RIGHT?

Sure is by me.
I thought it was a very thorough and pretty well presented argument for the problems that we face in this nation today because of the seduction by the liberal/socialist/Democrat party of vast numbers of our electorate. I reallly do hear nasty accusations from less sucessful people against “business/corporations/big oil/etc” as if there were a conspiracy of evil men bent on enslaving all “working” people. They want vengance for what they see as the failure of business/ corporate America/etc. to make them successful - when, in fact, their failure to succeed can be traced to their lack of education, discipline, perserverance, etc. These people really do want government to mete out punishment for these percieved wrongs. And, unfortunately, the Ralph Naders, plaintiff attorneys, environmentalists, NOW, etc. are only too happy to fan these flames. The result is the kind of punitive legislation we have aimed at “reining-in” the evil doers. Physicians and HMO’s are the latest targets, and I would not be surprised, if Kerry is elected, he and Hillary will ram socialized medicine through Congress, and the only thing that will keep the legal services from being socialized is the fact that trial lawyers OWN a majority in Congress, as well as the Democrat party. Counting federal, state, local, income, FICA sales, excise, etc. taxes, I pay half of my income to the government. Soon, it will be easier for me to quit work and do yards for cash - at least I can hide that from the IRS!
Just my own tirade.

[QUOTE=Charleylake]Sure is by me.
I thought it was a very thorough and pretty well presented argument for the problems that we face in this nation today because of the seduction by the liberal/socialist/Democrat party of vast numbers of our electorate. I reallly do hear nasty accusations from less sucessful people against “business/corporations/big oil/etc” as if there were a conspiracy of evil men bent on enslaving all “working” people. They want vengance for what they see as the failure of business/ corporate America/etc. to make them successful - when, in fact, their failure to succeed can be traced to their lack of education, discipline, perserverance, etc. These people really do want government to mete out punishment for these percieved wrongs. And, unfortunately, the Ralph Naders, plaintiff attorneys, environmentalists, NOW, etc. are only too happy to fan these flames. The result is the kind of punitive legislation we have aimed at “reining-in” the evil doers. Physicians and HMO’s are the latest targets, and I would not be surprised, if Kerry is elected, he and Hillary will ram socialized medicine through Congress, and the only thing that will keep the legal services from being socialized is the fact that trial lawyers OWN a majority in Congress, as well as the Democrat party. Counting federal, state, local, income, FICA sales, excise, etc. taxes, I pay half of my income to the government. Soon, it will be easier for me to quit work and do yards for cash - at least I can hide that from the IRS!
Just my own tirade.

Good points as usual. You are an intelligent man, Charley. Glad to finally met you on this forum. Look forward to more intelligent conversations with you. Now if we could only find an intelligent opponent that is not Naive and contemptuous!

[QUOTE=Charleylake]Sure is by me.
I thought it was a very thorough and pretty well presented argument for the problems that we face in this nation today because of the seduction by the liberal/socialist/Democrat party of vast numbers of our electorate. I reallly do hear nasty accusations from less sucessful people against “business/corporations/big oil/etc” as if there were a conspiracy of evil men bent on enslaving all “working” people. They want vengance for what they see as the failure of business/ corporate America/etc. to make them successful - when, in fact, their failure to succeed can be traced to their lack of education, discipline, perserverance, etc. These people really do want government to mete out punishment for these percieved wrongs. And, unfortunately, the Ralph Naders, plaintiff attorneys, environmentalists, NOW, etc. are only too happy to fan these flames. The result is the kind of punitive legislation we have aimed at “reining-in” the evil doers. Physicians and HMO’s are the latest targets, and I would not be surprised, if Kerry is elected, he and Hillary will ram socialized medicine through Congress, and the only thing that will keep the legal services from being socialized is the fact that trial lawyers OWN a majority in Congress, as well as the Democrat party. Counting federal, state, local, income, FICA sales, excise, etc. taxes, I pay half of my income to the government. Soon, it will be easier for me to quit work and do yards for cash - at least I can hide that from the IRS!
Just my own tirade.

www.friesian.com

Thanks for the support! My friend just told me about a quote from Shopenhaur attributed to Immanuel Kant that I will use to commend Dr. Ross who is the sole author of the website where this article and many others come from.

“Most people barely breech the surface. Intelligent men are blades of grass. Dr. Ross is a date palm.”

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it
is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
—Arthur Schopenhauer