3 of 4
3
Round 1 in debates goes to Obama, poll says
Posted: 29 September 2008 12:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
Senior Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7425
Joined  2006-09-21
Bobby Jindal - 29 September 2008 09:34 AM

The problem with earmarks is, like “hiring freezes” and “budget freezes,” a ban doesn’t work.  Voting against all earmarks is easy as long as you know they’re going to pass anyway, so the nation still gets various building, road, etc., programs, and you can grandstand and say you’re against spending.  But, if we do away with earmarks, we still need a prioritizing program, and still need a budget for the acceptable projects.  That’s fine, but the grandstanding hasn’t solved anything yet and he’s been in DC for about 30 years.  I am confident that Obama will reform the system, along the lines of the system that Jindal has halfway and clumsily initiated in LA.

080927_earmarks.gif

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/node/9908

 Signature 

Nope.  Don’t even think it.  Not the governor.  He has a job to do (God bless him and help keep him focused on governing and not on imposing his personal religious interpretations on the rest of us) while I’m just a moderate gadfly ... which in Louisiana they call “liberal.” --Faux Bobby Jindal

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 September 2008 12:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
Senior Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  23436
Joined  2004-10-21

The DU daily talking point… Earmarks are unimportant.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 September 2008 12:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
Senior Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7425
Joined  2006-09-21

My talking point is just, if we do away with earmarks, we still need a prioritizing program, and still need a budget for the acceptable projects.

 Signature 

Nope.  Don’t even think it.  Not the governor.  He has a job to do (God bless him and help keep him focused on governing and not on imposing his personal religious interpretations on the rest of us) while I’m just a moderate gadfly ... which in Louisiana they call “liberal.” --Faux Bobby Jindal

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 September 2008 12:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
Senior Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2915
Joined  2007-08-19
fred - 29 September 2008 12:14 PM

The DU daily talking point… Earmarks are unimportant.

My favorite part is how the pie chart doesn’t indicate the money amount. That way, simpletons (like Obama supporters) will believe that it’s not much money being spent.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 September 2008 01:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
Senior Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  23436
Joined  2004-10-21

Obama was wrong about Kissinger:

During Friday night’s presidential debate, Barack Obama claimed that one of John McCain’s advisers, former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, supported his view that the U.S. president should meet with Iran’s president and other rogue dictators without preconditions.

The point made McCain livid, as he repeatedly pointed out that Kissinger, his friend of 35 years, would never back such a dangerous position.

McCain turned out to be right.

Kissinger released a statement immediately after the debate. It read:

“Sen. McCain is right. I would not recommend the next president of the United States engage in talks with Iran at the presidential level.”

http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/kissinger_obama_iran/2008/09/28/135207.html?s=sp&promo;_code=6BBD-1

There you go boys..

booooby, booooby????

The problem is, McCain was wrong about Kissinger.  CBS “confirmed Henry Kissinger’s position following our interview, he told us he supports talks if not with Ahmadinejad, than with high-level Iranian officials without preconditions.” Obama also said in the debate that Ahmadinejad was not the one to talk to, though he was probably hoping to hear McCain mispronounce it again.

And McCain was so wrong about the history of Musharraff in Pakistan it was not even funny.

Tell us about musharraff again boooooby??

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 September 2008 01:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
Senior Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7425
Joined  2006-09-21
fred - 29 September 2008 01:09 PM

Obama was wrong about Kissinger:



Kissinger released a statement immediately after the debate. It read:


“Sen. McCain is right. I would not recommend the next president of the United States engage in talks with Iran at the presidential level.”

The problem is, Obama himself said in the debate that President Ahmadinejad was not the proper person to talk to.  That’s all Kissinger is saying, parsing his words carefully: “I would not recommend the next president of the United States engage in talks with Iran at the presidential level.” But K favors talking with preparation, but without preconditions. 

McCain’s Musharraf stumble was obvious.  I saw it written on this site somewhere, from DM1 maybe but not from me, and it was a blatant lapse.

 Signature 

Nope.  Don’t even think it.  Not the governor.  He has a job to do (God bless him and help keep him focused on governing and not on imposing his personal religious interpretations on the rest of us) while I’m just a moderate gadfly ... which in Louisiana they call “liberal.” --Faux Bobby Jindal

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 September 2008 01:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
Senior Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  23436
Joined  2004-10-21

BULL… Barak accused McCain of being wrong about Kissinger… Kissinger said obama was wrong.

I beleive that settles it, no matter how you try to spin it.

McCain’s Musharraf stumble was obvious.  I saw it written on this site somewhere, from DM1 maybe but not from me, and it was a blatant lapse.

You didn’t answer my question.  Tell me the specifics.. No need to dump on DM on this one, you made the statement.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 September 2008 01:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
Senior Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7425
Joined  2006-09-21
fred - 29 September 2008 01:24 PM

BULL… Barak accused McCain of being wrong about Kissinger… Kissinger said obama was wrong.

I beleive that settles it, no matter how you try to spin it.

You’re not reading what Kissinger said.  That’s why he’s the diplomat and you’re not!

 Signature 

Nope.  Don’t even think it.  Not the governor.  He has a job to do (God bless him and help keep him focused on governing and not on imposing his personal religious interpretations on the rest of us) while I’m just a moderate gadfly ... which in Louisiana they call “liberal.” --Faux Bobby Jindal

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 September 2008 01:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
Senior Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  23436
Joined  2004-10-21

I’m not reading what kissinger said??  He said obama was wrong.

Get the sand out of your eyes, and a new pair of glasses boooby.  You can’t spin this one.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 September 2008 01:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
Senior Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7425
Joined  2006-09-21

McCain made the most notable misstatements and stumbled over the names of the leaders of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, whose name he couldn’t pronounce, and of Pakistan, referring to the latter as “Qadari” instead of Asif Ali Zardari.

McCain incorrectly asserted that former Gen. Pervez Musharraf rescued Pakistan from being a “failed state” when he seized power in a 1999 coup.

“The problem with the strategy that’s been pursued was that for 10 years we coddled Musharraf. We alienated the Pakistani population, because we were anti-democratic,” Obama said.

“There was a failed state in Pakistan when Musharraf came to power,” McCain responded. “Everybody who was around then and had been there and knew about it knew that it was a failed state.”

Though Pakistan was wrestling with problems like tensions with India and serious poverty when Musharraf took power in an October 1999 coup, it had a democratically elected government and was far from being a “failed state” - a country in social and economic collapse where the government no longer exercises authority.

On Iraq, McCain went after Obama for opposing the 2007 surge into Iraq, contending that the addition of 30,000 troops succeeded in suppressing the sectarian violence that was ravaging the country.

“This strategy has succeeded, and we are winning in Iraq. And we will come home with victory and with honor,” McCain said.

Many experts inside and outside the U.S. government, however, say that while the surge was crucial, it was not the only factor that has led to an 80 percent reduction in violence. Gen. David Petraeus, who oversaw the surge, has also said he will never declare a U.S. victory in Iraq.

“This is not the sort of struggle where you take a hill, plant the flag and go home to a victory parade,” Petraeus said in a Sept. 11 interview with the BBC. “It’s not war with a simple slogan.”

Asked if he would send more troops to help contain the worsening war in Afghanistan, where U.S. combat casualties are now running higher than in Iraq, McCain said that he would, and that they would be used in the same strategy - a surge - that Obama “condemned in Iraq.”

But senior U.S. defense officials say that a similar strategy can’t be replicated in Afghanistan. They point out that the bulk of the additional troops sent to Iraq were deployed to contain violence in the densely populated neighborhoods of Baghdad, while the Taliban insurgency is based in the rugged mountains and sprawling deserts of Afghanistan.

Their fiercest duel was over dealing with Iran’s nuclear program and whether to hold direct talks with Ahmadinejad. McCain ridiculed Obama for offering in 2007 to sit down without preconditions with the Iranian president to talk about Iran’s suspected nuclear weapons program.

Obama, who long ago had softened that line, countered that one of McCain’s own advisers, former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, along with four other former secretaries of state, had advocated talks without preconditions. That’s true. Kissinger in fact earlier this month advocated unconditional talks. But as McCain pointed out, Kissinger had said the talks should start at the level of the secretary of state

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/AP/story/703847.html

 Signature 

Nope.  Don’t even think it.  Not the governor.  He has a job to do (God bless him and help keep him focused on governing and not on imposing his personal religious interpretations on the rest of us) while I’m just a moderate gadfly ... which in Louisiana they call “liberal.” --Faux Bobby Jindal

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 September 2008 01:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
Senior Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  23436
Joined  2004-10-21

Just as obama, you won’t admit you were wrong, and continue to spin.

Inability to admit you’re wrong is the trait you and obama share, and it’s the trait that makes him unfit to be president.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 September 2008 01:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
Senior Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7425
Joined  2006-09-21

Fred, you can’t deal with the fact check, so you attack me instead.  That does not make for a winning argument.  The truth is, the Pakistan gaffe is obvious, and the Kissinger citation by Obama is accurate.

McCain made the most notable misstatements and stumbled over the names of the leaders of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, whose name he couldn’t pronounce, and of Pakistan, referring to the latter as “Qadari” instead of Asif Ali Zardari.

McCain incorrectly asserted that former Gen. Pervez Musharraf rescued Pakistan from being a “failed state” when he seized power in a 1999 coup.

“The problem with the strategy that’s been pursued was that for 10 years we coddled Musharraf. We alienated the Pakistani population, because we were anti-democratic,” Obama said.

“There was a failed state in Pakistan when Musharraf came to power,” McCain responded. “Everybody who was around then and had been there and knew about it knew that it was a failed state.”

Though Pakistan was wrestling with problems like tensions with India and serious poverty when Musharraf took power in an October 1999 coup, it had a democratically elected government and was far from being a “failed state” - a country in social and economic collapse where the government no longer exercises authority.

On Iraq, McCain went after Obama for opposing the 2007 surge into Iraq, contending that the addition of 30,000 troops succeeded in suppressing the sectarian violence that was ravaging the country.

“This strategy has succeeded, and we are winning in Iraq. And we will come home with victory and with honor,” McCain said.

Many experts inside and outside the U.S. government, however, say that while the surge was crucial, it was not the only factor that has led to an 80 percent reduction in violence. Gen. David Petraeus, who oversaw the surge, has also said he will never declare a U.S. victory in Iraq.

“This is not the sort of struggle where you take a hill, plant the flag and go home to a victory parade,” Petraeus said in a Sept. 11 interview with the BBC. “It’s not war with a simple slogan.”

Asked if he would send more troops to help contain the worsening war in Afghanistan, where U.S. combat casualties are now running higher than in Iraq, McCain said that he would, and that they would be used in the same strategy - a surge - that Obama “condemned in Iraq.”

But senior U.S. defense officials say that a similar strategy can’t be replicated in Afghanistan. They point out that the bulk of the additional troops sent to Iraq were deployed to contain violence in the densely populated neighborhoods of Baghdad, while the Taliban insurgency is based in the rugged mountains and sprawling deserts of Afghanistan.

Their fiercest duel was over dealing with Iran’s nuclear program and whether to hold direct talks with Ahmadinejad. McCain ridiculed Obama for offering in 2007 to sit down without preconditions with the Iranian president to talk about Iran’s suspected nuclear weapons program.

Obama, who long ago had softened that line, countered that one of McCain’s own advisers, former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, along with four other former secretaries of state, had advocated talks without preconditions. That’s true. Kissinger in fact earlier this month advocated unconditional talks. But as McCain pointed out, Kissinger had said the talks should start at the level of the secretary of state

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/AP/story/703847.html

 Signature 

Nope.  Don’t even think it.  Not the governor.  He has a job to do (God bless him and help keep him focused on governing and not on imposing his personal religious interpretations on the rest of us) while I’m just a moderate gadfly ... which in Louisiana they call “liberal.” --Faux Bobby Jindal

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 September 2008 01:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
Senior Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  23436
Joined  2004-10-21

You’re spinning booby… obama said McCain was wrong, but Kissinger corrected him..  Now like obama, you will not admit you’re wrong..  spin away.  But when you hard headedly deny the obvious truth, as corrected by Kissinger himself, you simply lower the value of your opinion.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 September 2008 02:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
Senior Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7425
Joined  2006-09-21

The argument was not about what Kissinger was going to say after the debate.  He made a careful statement which reflects only his stance that talks start below the presidential level and then work upwards. 

What had he said before the debate?  The big question of course, was whether there should be preconditions.

=========================

Kissinger backs direct U.S. talks with Iran
By Camilla Hall and Mike Schneider
Bloomberg News
Published: March 15, 2008
Former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger said the U.S. should negotiate directly with Iran over its nuclear program and other bilateral issues.

“One should be prepared to negotiate, and I think we should be prepared to negotiate about Iran,” Kissinger, who brokered the end of the 1973 Yom Kippur war and peace talks with the North Vietnamese, said in an interview with Bloomberg Television. Asked whether he meant the U.S. should hold direct talks, Kissinger, 84, responded: “Yes, I think we should.”

There has been no response so far from Iran, he said.

“I’ve been in semi-private, totally private talks with Iranians,” he said. “They’ve had put before them approaches that with a little flexibility on their part would, in my view, surely lead to negotiations.” He didn’t elaborate on who was engaged in the talks.

While the Bush administration pursues a policy of diplomatic pressure on Iran at the United Nations and unilateral sanctions to weaken its access to the international banking system, the U.S. hasn’t ruled out military action to halt Iran’s nuclear work. There has been no direct contact between the U.S. and Iran since the 1979 Iranian revolution, except for talks in Baghdad on Iraqi security between their ambassadors or technical experts.

Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki said March 9 that Iran wouldn’t engage with the U.S. until President Bush’s successor is elected.

Democratic presidential contender Sen. Barack Obama has said he would meet with U.S. adversaries such as the leaders of Iran without conditions, positions his primary opponent, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, called “irresponsible and frankly naive.”

The Republican candidate, Sen. John McCain, has said the Democratic candidates “won’t recognize and seriously address” the threat from Iran’s pursuit of nuclear weapons.

Iran maintains its enrichment of uranium is needed for nuclear power, while the U.S. says the project is cover for weapons development.

“It’s not really the willingness to talk, it’s so far the inability to define what we are trying to accomplish,” Kissinger said. “The negotiations depend on a balance of incentives and penalties. Have we got those right at every point? Not at every point.”

U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates announced three days ago that Adm. William Fallon would be stepping down as head of Central Command in the Arabian Gulf, provoking criticism that Bush won’t tolerate dissent and feeding speculation his Iran policy could become more confrontational. Fallon once referred to tough White House rhetoric on Iran as “not helpful and not useful.”

Kissinger’s comments came on the eve of Friday’s parliamentary voting in Iran. The United Principlist Front, allied to President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, is competing for parliament’s 290 seats against the Reformists’ Coalition of his predecessor, Mohammad Khatami, and an emerging group, the Broad Principlist Coalition, which criticizes the president’s handling of the nation’s nuclear program and economy.

Polling times were extended by five hours and preliminary results will be published starting today. Almost 43 million people were eligible to vote.

The Nobel Peace Prize winner said any direct talks between the U.S. and Iran on issues such as the nuclear dispute would be most likely to succeed if they first involved only diplomatic staff and progressed to the level of secretary of state before the heads of state meet.

http://deseretnews.com/article/content/mobile/1,5620,695261802,00.html?printView=true

 Signature 

Nope.  Don’t even think it.  Not the governor.  He has a job to do (God bless him and help keep him focused on governing and not on imposing his personal religious interpretations on the rest of us) while I’m just a moderate gadfly ... which in Louisiana they call “liberal.” --Faux Bobby Jindal

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 September 2008 02:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
Senior Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  23436
Joined  2004-10-21

Just admit it boooby, you and obama were wrong… Now you try and explain it away, like Kissinger doesn’t know what he’s talking about..

You think you know kissingers mind, better than kissinger??  You’re as arrogant as obama.

Profile
 
 
   
3 of 4
3